RE: why leave good old germany? - 2

I noticed that snow appears to be yellow from time to time.

Anyhow, please bear in mind, that we all enjoy a not too emotional discussion.

Thank you very much.

Zitat von dirt rider

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good call toronto07...

about the only place left to buy affordable large packages of land is probably in the high country in BC.

I think we should start a 'debunking the myths of Canada' thread - because I get the impression that a lot of germans seem to think that canada hasn't changed much since the 1850's.
1. you're going to have to live close to a larger city if you want to find a job. Land is expensive around the bigger cities (unless we're talking about saskatchewan or maybe manitoba and who wants to live there?)
2. Most of the 'wide open spaces' are already owned by somebody other than you. Or they are 'crown land' and not for sale.
3. First Go on vacation in canada and try to talk to the locals about your ideas. after they finish laughing, ask them what the think might be realistic.

I'd like to clear up the misconceptions a few people here seem to have, so that when/if they go to canada it will be a positive experience (not only for them, also for the canadians). Let's make this a win-win thing.

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You're absolutely right with all that. Some people seem to watch one or two of those emigrant-sequels in TV and want to share the movement. Yeah, Canada is nice, everybody can do it because there are lots of jobs available.

But I don't think there too many of them, at least here in this forum, you can read a lot of warning stuff too. The motive is the most important thing and the knowledge of what is expecting you over there. Anyway, for my taste. So if you have a big detached family home in a nice place, a good job, family - one should think twice of emigration. I don't think Germany is so bad, you can find your calm place amidst nature.

Another point is the wheather, all looks bright in midsummer. On the other hand people have dreams and who are we to destroy them. And some people even go to Saskatchwan, for whatever reason. I don't have to understand that. So continue your win-win thing except for the part that Germany or Germans are so bad. Because, Canadians wouldn't like that part in an equivalent forum over there.

Zitat von karsten

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... So if you have a big detached family home in a nice place, a good job, family -...

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What are you saying? Only people who live in a dump, work in a dead end job and have a dysfunctional family should move to Canada?

Is that your description of the average German moving to Canada?

Just asking

Zitat von RoseLavender

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Zitat von karsten

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... So if you have a big detached family home in a nice place, a good job, family -...

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What are you saying? Only people who live in a dump, work in a dead end job and have a dysfunctional family should move to Canada?

Is that your description of the average German moving to Canada?

Just asking

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Good point, and not too far off either.

Zitat von RoseLavender

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Zitat von karsten

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... So if you have a big detached family home in a nice place, a good job, family -...

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What are you saying? Only people who live in a dump, work in a dead end job and have a dysfunctional family should move to Canada?

Is that your description of the average German moving to Canada?

Just asking

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Well, you know what I mean. In former times, most people came because they suffered hardships in their countries and had nothing to lose as they went. They were ready to fight, had a real pioneer spirit. Today some of the people are just attracted because of one of the broadcast's in TV. They are bored, some try to get in a container (Big brother) some are going to be a "Superstar" and some of the same spirit just get the impression out of some pictures or movies in Canada is Eldorado or whatever. And maybe some people are neither here nor there satisfied.

@karsten


Es gilt zwar nicht für alle, aber es ist doch sehr wahr.

Zitat von Trudy1

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@karsten


Es gilt zwar nicht für alle, aber es ist doch sehr wahr.

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Of course not. Some have THE spirit, some are looking for alternative lifestyle as we have in Germany and other have the most wanted professions by Canadians. Unfortunately, I'm not one of the last group...
But to say you can't see a future for your kiddies here in Germany is a weak point in my opinion for emigration.

Why leave Germany? Personal choice (depending on personal circumstances)! What is right for some, is not right for others. E.g. it is pretty easy to go to Canada, when you are already Canadian (but whether the struggle of getting a visa is worth it is a different story). Pretty easy to go back, when you already have friends, relatives and maybe even insurance etc. there. Or if you are a truck driver or someone with Canadian qualifications. But what about people, who don’t have any of that and are – let’s say –engineers WITHOUT Canadian qualifications. For them it is a very different story and Canada presents itself in a very different light there. I do understand that you want to go back to Canada, dirtrider, but be warned: you have changed and Canada may not be anymore what you think it is. Almost all people going back to their home country after a long time get a reverse culture shock, which often hits them so hard, that they are back where they were in no time. I am going through the same thing at the moment. I have returned to Germany for an indefinite period of time after having lived overseas for almost 10 years…. Whew…. Social security has become a bit of a joke here. The hunt for jobs is ridiculous, but real estate is still affordable compared to some other places in the world. But people seem to be in a rush at all times, hardly ever hold the door open for you, when you are trying to squeeze through with kids, bags and pram etc. I am having a tough time getting back into the swing of things.

Sorry to hear that you are ill, dirtrider. It is very understandable that you want to go back to where your roots are. Personally, I believe the medical system in Germany is the best you can get. What I have seen in Canada, the USA, Australia in the last few years: endless waitlists for serious operations, huge excess to pay even when you have the best possible private insurance, and of course, some doctors who seem to have no qualifications at all…. No thanks. And I believe that in Canada (and Australia and other countries) a lot more women have go back to work after having children… because you can’t live on one salary. Look at the many many families here that live VERY comfortably on one salary! That would be impossible in most other countries.

Anyway, best of luck for your return and enjoy the next few years wherever you are.

Zitat von canCan10

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Zitat von karsten

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Zitat von dirt rider

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good call toronto07...

You have a point saying Germany isn't that bad. In fact, Germany is not an immigration country and from an economic point of view, the few citizens leaving the country do not bother anybody as long as there is structural unemployment, lots of opportunities for companies to move to eastern Europe or even further and most of all, as long as Germans do not have more than 1,2 children the next generation also isn't compromised that much. Now, that is an issue Canada inherits as immigrants might have children still but then their children get Canadianized and we all know that they even have a lower birth rate over here.

Bottom line, a little brain drain does not hurt Germany and the Canadians will only be open for as long as their economy is steaming and they have more job openings to fill than candidates. Almost foolish to believe they were so friendly because they like immigrants so much...as my manager once said, they would prefer to only hire Canadians but can't find enough.

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Well, Germany was at least an immigration country in the 50th an 60th of the last century. Many Italians and Turks as the majority came, of course on my opinion, too many of the last group. In Canada as I perceive it, there are lots of people with asian background or from India coming in as immigrants. Maybe there is a similarity, Germany also needed help in construction and in factory back then. But for at least a few years outsourcing destroyed a lot of jobs but people don't leave Germany.
As you say, nowadays economy is steaming in Can but all know this won't last forever. Of course canadian employer would prefer to hire Canadians as Germans would prefer to hire Germans - that's human. The difference here is however -who of the Canadians can say he or she has no background in his family tree descending once from a country that's far away from Canada?

hi all,

i agree that GER is a nice place to live. we still have an excellent infrastructure, medical system, partially nice landscape (depending on what you're looking for), and a quite healthy industry with world-class and leading companies in various areas (automotive, high tech, chemical, pharma, financial services, etc.). housing is still affordable and most people (still) can earn enough to live a decent life. in addition, laws are basically quite cosumer-friendly proctecting the people from accelerated price increases (like rents).
interestingly, as already someone else stated, when you go to canada or the US, much land is private - especially at and around popluar places such as lakes. it's funny seeing a lake on a map but you can't get to the water since all land around it is private property. you'd never see this in GER.
In GER as a single, you feel quite ripped-off by the government due to the heavy tax loads. however, one have to understand the system which is quite familiy friendly. you'll see the positive effect when you get married and your spouse (or you) taking off from work for a while.
anyway, what I'm saying is - and I already wrote this a couple of times - that the motivation for immigration to an other country should't be based on prejudices nor on dissatisfaction. you won't get happy, if dissatisfaction is your main driver...

cheers

andy

Zitat von hrt2fnd

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hi all,

i agree that GER is a nice place to live. we still have an excellent infrastructure, medical system, partially nice landscape (depending on what you're looking for), and a quite healthy industry with world-class and leading companies in various areas (automotive, high tech, chemical, pharma, financial services, etc.). housing is still affordable and most people (still) can earn enough to live a decent life. in addition, laws are basically quite cosumer-friendly proctecting the people from accelerated price increases (like rents).
interestingly, as already someone else stated, when you go to canada or the US, much land is private - especially at and around popluar places such as lakes. it's funny seeing a lake on a map but you can't get to the water since all land around it is private property. you'd never see this in GER.
In GER as a single, you feel quite ripped-off by the government due to the heavy tax loads. however, one have to understand the system which is quite familiy friendly. you'll see the positive effect when you get married and your spouse (or you) taking off from work for a while.
anyway, what I'm saying is - and I already wrote this a couple of times - that the motivation for immigration to an other country should't be based on prejudices nor on dissatisfaction. you won't get happy, if dissatisfaction is your main driver...

cheers

andy

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Germany has it's ups and downs like every other country in the world.

Whilst living there I remember the excellent value fur money I got. Effectiveness, infrastructure and medical services were exceptionally good compared to other countries. Certain things like property tax, road tax and car insurance were rather moderate too.

The reason for leaving Germany will almost certainly be different for everyone else. For myself there were two main reasons:
1) the labour market which is over regulated and not really in favour of the job-seeker
2) german politics and all of it's results

Zitat von Peter_W

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The reason for leaving Germany will almost certainly be different for everyone else. For myself there were two main reasons:
1) the labour market which is over regulated and not really in favour of the job-seeker
2) german politics and all of it's results

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My experience moving all over that little nice blue planet of ours:

1. Flexibility and creativity will get you employment in any labour market.

2. Politics sucks all over the world. (You know politicians are like diapers - they are changed for the same reason)

The politicians are dumb asses everywhere around the world, thats' true.
But in GER you got the feeling that they are so far away from the real life that every decision they make is for their own advantage.
This is because of the conflict of interest. Most of them are also part of teh industial management etc.
So they can never make any right desicion for the society without harming themselfs.

Most of the people in foreign countries are finding Germans busy, concentrated, very work-oriented and highly specialized.
Maybe they're right but none of them know why it is like this...

In GER (that's my oppinion) we have the nice little term "Ellenbogengesellschaft" that means everybody is using his elbow to reach his goal.
The result is a very ignorant society and you can find it in almost every part of the german culture by now.
In the US for example the sales clerks are friendly... kinda artificial but friendly. In GER most of them are dull, blunt and uninterested.
Hey... they need MY money to keep the job and give a shi* about my needs!

That's just a very tiny part of all but you can already understand the point of view.
Most of the time you fret about that and it getting worse day by day.

Nobody cares about the other and that's what destroys our (GER) society!
Engineers, medicals even professors leaving our country and everybody who's left behind has to "re-invent the wheel" because the real good (and primarily old) guys for the jobs are lost.
The work ist getting heavier every day because the workload of 10 is now done by 4 peoples.

If you don't wanna die by heart attack in the near future you have to make a choice for yourself and your family!
And most of the time the choice of leaving your home, friends and even your (pretended) cultural identity is the only way to stay healthy.

Zitat von toronto07

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Zitat von Jackaroo

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Zitat von toronto07

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However I don't want to lecture you on that one, since almost everybody in Germany sees his/her dreams coming true in CA, and whatever advise I can give guys like you, you just don't take it seriously, and know everything better -- now that is typical for Germans: they know everything better!!

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Yeah right,the master answer for everything.

Always blaming someone else or a whole country for whatever.
Don't you think thats a bit poor?

How about ,everyone for his self is in charge and not his country?

Maybe it's a question of character? What would it mean?
Stop seeking for weakness and instead finding strength properties of people.

Then you able to understand individuals and other cultures.

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Oh God... I don't understand what you are trying to say. Darn, my English must be really, really crappy.

@ dirt ride
you think anybody here knows about Murphy ? don't overestimate the users.

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Some of them do...underestimating is also wrong. Pride comes before the fall.